Forum #1: Book 1 and 2: Relationships Compared

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  • #9749

    Kay and Arthur grew up with a brotherly relationship despite Arthur being adopted. Even though these two had a brotherly relationship, they didn’t always get along with each other. As all brothers do, Kay and Arthur had minor discrepancies. For example, when Merlyn favored Arthur more, Kay’s jealousy overcame him and the two broke out into a fight. Luckily the fight didn’t end in any lethal injuries. Even though these two brothers quarrel sometimes they continued to stick up for one another throughout the story. The Orkney brothers (Agravaine, Gawaine, Gaheris,and Gareth) also had a brotherly relationship. In comparison with Kay and Arthur, the Orkney brothers had their own disagreements. The Orkney brothers had a very evil mother named Morgause. The brothers would do anything she said. Morgues ordered her sons to capture a unicorn and bring it back to her. The four brothers agreed on this and decided to capture the unicorn. When they captured the unicorn Morgause wanted them to kill it. Even though the brothers wanted their mother’s approval they did not want to harm the unicorn. Agravaine, thinking he was the leader in the group, decided to take matters into his own hands and kill the unicorn without his brother’s consent. He did this because he thought it would be pleasing to his mother. This shows that each set of brothers had agreements and disagreements. The biggest contrast between each set of brothers was their upbringing. While Kay and Arthur had a loving father, the Orkney brothers were raised by an evil witch. T.H. White rotated between England and Orkney in book 1 and 2 because he wanted to show the parallels between each set of brothers. The two kingdoms are united when Arthur and Morgause commit incest. Do you think it was fair that Merlyn favored Arthur more? Do you think T. H. White used foreshadowing when he started Agravaine’s name with a different letter to show he was going to betray his brothers?

    #9752

    I think Agravaine’s name doesn’t start with a G because T. H. White wanted to foreshadow that Agravaine would do something against his brothers in the future.

    #9753

    @dchin I think Agravaine’s name doesn’t start with a G because T. H. White wanted to foreshadow that Agravaine would do something against his brothers in the future.

    #9755

    @amelia152016 I think the Orkney brothers will become enemies later on because they will begin to lose each other’s trust.

    #9762
    alleydimel
    Member

    Kay and Arthur have a brotherly relationship, as do Arthur’s cousins Agravine, Gawaine, Gaheris, and Gareth. The brothers obviously loved each other, but they had their moments. Good moments and bad moments. As an example, the four brothers did not all agree to kill the unicorn. Agravine was all for killing it, but the other three were not. Agravine obviously did not care all that much on his brothers’ opinions and killed the unicorn anyway. By doing so it showed that there was tension between them. Kay and Arthur have the same characterisitc. Kay is the tough guy, as where Arthur is softer than Kay. Kay and Arthur were brought by a wizard, but knights were there for them. Both of them dreamed of becoming knights after all. as do the other four brothers. Kay and Arthur may have grown up together, but they were not of the same blood. Arhtur was adopted. Both boys accepted it and were the best of friends. the other four brothers were a little more agressive with each other in comparison to Kay and Arthur. the four often had sentimetal moements of their mother and her magic. The four brothers, along with Kay and Arthur, had magic around them all their lives, another similarity. The jumping back and forth in book II was to show how the first and second book relate with each other. In the end, both of the kingdoms unite through Arthur and Queen Morgause. Will the sets of brothers stay close for much longer?

    #9763
    alleydimel
    Member

    @amelia152016 i think that the brothers will end up having a major falling out and go to war against each other.

    #9764
    alleydimel
    Member

    @kadenheadington i think that he is forshaddowing that the brothers will go their separate ways. i think that Agravine is going to separate from the rest of them.

    #9775
    missloock
    Keymaster

    I love where this conversation is going. Keep pushing the ideas of tones and their relationship to characters. What a wonderful idea.

    And the idea is dreams. Don’t forget to keep that in your kinda forefront. Nice start. Keep chatting away and see where this takes you.

    #9786
    loganoviatt
    Member

    The Wart and Kay spent their days of childhood together under the protection of Sir Ector. Although the wart was not Sir Ector’s biological son, like Kay, he was though of as almost that. Kay and wart went on adventures together like in chapters XI and XII when they fought Morgan Le Fay and the griffin. They were exposed to an education of magic from Merlyn and had a familiarity of it. The two boys had personalities on the opposite ends of the spectrum, but they balanced each other out with a couple fights every now and then. At the end of the day, they remain faithful to one another. On the flip-side, the Orkney brothers grew up in different conditions but with many similarities to Kay and Wart.They four boys grew up exposed to magic due to their mother being a witch of sorts. All of the boys had different personalities that would occasionally conflict with each other. Although they also shared adventures together, that is where the similarities end. The boys grew up under Queen Morgause. She was a neglectful mother who eventually caused them to go on an irrational quest to kill a unicorn in chapter XII of book two. When the unicorn was cornered, Agravaine, the eldest brother, acted in a twisted manner and slaughtered the unicorn without the other’s consent. This drew the boys into further quarrels with each other. The second book transitions from kingdom to kingdom to show parallelism between the two families. Eventually, the two kingdoms are joined together due to an incestrial relationship between King Arthur and Queen Morgause.The end result was a child named Mordred.
    How do you think the way the Orkney brothers grew up affected them later in the story?

    #9788
    loganoviatt
    Member

    @kadenheadington In my mind, ‘Agravaine’ sounds similar to ‘aggression’. This similarity shows true when Agravain killed the unicorn despite the plan to catch it safely. Aggression seems to be in his character.

    #9790
    loganoviatt
    Member

    @alleydimel I don’t think that the brothers will stay close for long. Each boy’s intention is different for their actions.

    #9794
    sarahjwilcox
    Member

    In The Once and Future King Kay and Wart are brothers who had a strong bond between each other along with the benefit of having a loving father by the name of Sir Ector. Agravaine, Gawaine, Gaheris, and Gareth had a very strong relationship between eachother even though they had a difficult childhood, for they were exposed to their mother’s, Queen Morgause, witchcraft and they never really had a father because their father was off fighting battles with Arthur. Kay and Wart have polar opposite personalities though; Kay was spoiled, selfish, and complaisant, while Wart was quiet, shy, and always did the right thing. Kay even tried to act as though he pulled the sword from the stone in Book I Chapter Twenty-Three. Though the other four brothers had their share in fights like in Chapter Seven of Book II they try to catch a unicorn by bringing a virgin to the unicorn. Once the unicorn shows up Agravaine kills the unicorn without the other sibling’s consent. I feel as though T.H. White switches in between England and Orkney to show the similarities and differences between the two sets of brothers. In the end they come together through King Arthur and Queen Morgause had a baby together, through an incestuous relationship, who they named Mordred. At that time though they did not know that they were half-siblings.
    Do you think that Mordred will bond between his other four siblings like the bond already present between Agravaine, Gawaine, Gaheris, and Gareth?

    #9795
    sarahjwilcox
    Member

    @amelia152016 I think the Orkney brothers will stay together because they have been through so much, such as how they had to stick together when they did not have their father around, or when their mother was practicing witchcraft. They always had to look out for each other.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 8 months ago by sarahjwilcox.
    #9797
    sarahjwilcox
    Member

    @loganoviatt I think the Orkney brother’s childhood, no matter how difficult it may have been, brought them closer together. They did not have a father present and their mother was a woman who practiced witchcraft. So, they had to look out for each other through the difficult times.

    #9807
    serrato1
    Member

    Wart’s and Kay’s relationship can be described on as hierarchy and respect between them. Truly I think there is reverence between them and respect for the one in the “above” position but no true deep love of those like true brothers. This can be seen when they were younger and Wart would do anything to please Kay because of his position above himself and his obedience as squire when Kay becomes a night. Though the tables turn when Wart is found to be the true heir to the throne and Kay accepts this by being Arthur’s helper. This is not the case however with Agravaine, Gawaine, Gaheris, and Gareth theirs is built on their brotherhood which brings out their mutual respect for one another. Their bond is one of survival compared to their cousins bond of education and knightly upbringing. The Orkeys relationship is based on family, love and loyalty while Kay’s and warts is based on respect. Could this be due to the fact that Wart and Kay are not true brothers like the Orkeys or because of their upbringings and parenting?

    #9808
    serrato1
    Member

    @alleydimmel I think the brothers will stay forever bonded over their years spent together and what not but will eventually go their separate ways to live their own lives. But I do not think they will have a fall out but remember their connection for life.

    #9811
    dmcluckey
    Member

    Kay and Arthur and the Orkney brothers are parts of very different families. Kay and Arthur had Merlyn to look up to in their childhood, where Agravaine, Gawaine, Gareth and Gaheris had Morgause as a role model. For example, the Orkney brothers would want to please their mother so they go and try to get a unicorn, but Agravaine kills it instead of keeping it alive. Both sets of brothers love each other. T.H White kept switching between the kingdoms to show the differences between the two sets of brothers. The kingdoms come together through Morgause and Arthur, because they had a baby together, because Morgause used magic to trick Arthur, and their child’s name is Mordred. How are Arthur’s decisions affected by Kay’s influence?

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 8 months ago by dmcluckey.
    #9813
    dmcluckey
    Member

    @sarahjwilcox I think Mordred will drift apart from his other siblings because he is related to both Arthur and Morgause, not Morgause and Lot.

    #9814
    dmcluckey
    Member

    @loganoviatt Since they grew up together, I think that they will stay the same throughout the story, one might have an outburst here and there, but they will always be brothers.

    #9822

    OKay well for starters, both set of brothers did not get along with one another. THey were like butting heads and were being total jerks and (spoilers) almost killed each other. Kay and Arthur (wart) they grew a little closer and bonded a bit more when they went a fought a griffin with Robin Hood and his gang. Yeah when Kay totes killed the griffin and Arthur broke his collarbone, but in the end they grew closer and throughout the rest of the book where Kay was mentioned they were somewhat better around and with each other. (If you catch what I’m sayin’) Ahh, and then there are the four brothers: Agravaine,Gawaine,Gareth, and Gaheris. They were quite a handful for interesting characters. For one and I think the worst of all, was they were going to kill a unicorn. (which they did, well Agravaine did all of it.) And they were just kind of jerky people. LIke Gawaine tried to kill his brother Agravaine who in turn pulled out a small knife on him. YEah they were cray. They did bond more however as they progressed as characters and with lots of dedication (this also goes for Kay and Arthur as well) they bonded and well they didn’t sing and hug it out, they grew closer as brothers and made it out okay in the end.
    T.H.White I believe switched back and fourth between England and Orkney for two reasons. One to develop characters and two to tie in the rest of the story. LIke the four brothers became knights of the round table and Arthur and Morgause had a kid together, so yeah. Also it’s just a tad twisted of a tale but I mean White can’t fray to far off from the original story so switching back and fourth gave him one: a longer story to tell and two: kept things close to the original tale.

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